A Vote for Pantalone, A Vote for Rob Ford

But the situation could change, he noted, if Mr. Miller actually stepped up to run.

"Candidates who aren't candidates are generally more popular than when they are candidates," Mr. Wiseman said. He also pointed to the strong advantage of incumbency, noting it is "very rare" for a municipal mayor to lose a re-election bid: "You've got to live in Vaughan."

Read more: http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/08/24/mayor-miller-would-likely-win-if-he-ran-again-poll-shows/#ixzz11tCe7pIo

Olly your desperate attempts to paint Miller as so unpopular (and thus Smitherman is the most progressive Torontonians are willing to go) are getting pretty ridiculous.

I think one of Smitherman's biggest mistakes was running such an anti-Miller campaign, when he needs to appeal to Miller voters.  His slogan is "Be Proud of Toronto Again."  I'm curious to know when Smitherman thought Toronto jumped the shark and when the city's golden days were.

That is why running Smitherman was such a joke. The looming possibility of having him in office at city hall has been one of Ford's stronger selling points.

A nice little side note. Smitherman called Miller's office last Monday, a couple of days before the endorsement of Pantalone. The call has not been returned.

Why would Smitherman be calling the failed mayor, who ruined this city? The mayor wasn't curious enough to bother finding out.

How have your other predictions panned out? 

What's your source on that, aka Mycroft? Just interested.

Obviously Lib insider Rossi has his reasons for running against Lib Smitherman. And if, as indicated above, Pantalone is Rossi's "second choice", why on earth would he drop out to support Smitherman. 

I was also disappointed that Sewell didn't jump in to support Pantalone. On the other hand, Sewell tried to take out Mihevc in the last election and failed dismally to mobilize Ward 21 residents against the St. Clair right of way. 

The "red" tories stood by while Harris decimated the city and the province. They stand by while Harper does the same on the national scene. Why would we expect them to behave any differently under a Smitherman regime? 

Thanks, aka Mycroft. Must be so embarrassing for the conservative elites to lose control of their creation. Like the poor Republicans and their own Palinasaurus. Boo hoo.

Also, what Polunatic2 said.

Polunatic2 wrote:

Obviously Lib insider Rossi has his reasons for running against Lib Smitherman. And if, as indicated above, Pantalone is Rossi's "second choice", why on earth would he drop out to support Smitherman. 

As we all know, the divisions and tribal wars within the Liberal party are often more intense than the conflict between parties. I went to one candidates debate and I noticed that there seemed to be really bad chemistry between Rossi and Smitherman. You could tell that they REALLY hate each other. I'm not quite sure what the background to the story is and I've never quite been able to figure out which of them is backed by "Chretienites" and which is backed by "Martinites" (or whatever other labels seem to make sense in this case). I think Rossi and Pantalone seem to respect each other as human beings (and it goes without saying that NO ONE among the candidates respects Ford at all). That being said, I think Rossi and Pantalone will both stick it out to the end.

If Smitherman loses, i wonder what he would do for a living? Go back to managing a camera shop on Church St?

If Smitherman loses I'm sure he'd get a comfy appointment either from the McGuinty Liberals (more likely after next year's election than before) or from the federal Libs once they get in (if Rae becomes FM perhaps Smitherman will get a nice consular position in LA or NYC?) And there are always the inevitable corporate boards which Smitherman, as a former Health and Energy minister, is prime for. Perhaps he'll be appointed to Enbridge's board or to a private healthcare concern?

A political wrote:

This is a funny thread, but not worth entering into with exception of giving you my prediction of numbers for Pants, as Cueball won't or can't:

 

Ford   42%

Smitherman - 36%

Pantalone - 15%

Rossi 5%

others 1%

Welcome to Ford"s Toronto!!!

The only prediction I have made is that Smitherman wont beat Ford. It seems you agree. Therefore you can drop the strategic vote mantra, since it is not going to work.

Smitherman has already given all his policy concessions. Haven't you read his web site policy platform?

You aren't suggesting that the NDP has sold out Joe's campaign in order to leverage their own position on City Council? What do you think would be required to get complete submission to the Liberals: Increasing the size of the type font of the word "diversity" on the campaign literature?

I like Joe Pantalone and have been utterly frustrated that his campaign has been so flat. I am terribly torn as are many Torontonians. I will in the end though vote on principle and hope that carries the day.

Cueball wrote:

Worse. A vote for George Smitherman is a vote for George Smitherman.

Cueball, that is the best single sentence you've ever posted.  ;-)

Your additionaly commentary about Ford phobias came after I posted when you edited the post. My response was to the "October Surprise" comment, and before your edit. In other words we cross posted. My comment was about your suggestion that Smitherman might change his spots, and nothing to do with your comments about Ford's phobia, which you added after I responded.

I am dead certain Smitherman's sexuality is driving some of the anti-Smitherman vote. But I don't care. That is irrelevant to me. He is not going to get a sympathy vote out of me. I am going to vote for an open minded and non-homphobic candidate whose position I like: Joe Pantalone.

I would likely abstain from a straight contest between Smitherman and Ford. That said, I don't have to. I have a choice. I can vote Pantalone.

Here is the TPSB idea of action:

Quote:

THIS IS AN EXTRACT FROM THE MINUTES OF THE PUBLIC MEETING OF THE
TORONTO POLICE SERVICES BOARD HELD ON JULY 10, 2007
#P260. CITY OF TORONTO'S "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" CAMPAIGN
The Board was in receipt of the following report July 03, 2007 from Alok Mukherjee, Chair:
Subject: CITY OF TORONTO'S "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" CAMPAIGN
Recommendation:
It is recommended that:
1. The Board receive the correspondence dated June 26, 2007 from the City Clerk
forwarding City Council's motion with respect to the "Support our Troops" campaign,
2. The Board receive the correspondence dated June 22, 2007 from Toronto Police
Association President Dave Wilson; and,
3. The Board request that the Chief of Police report on any initiatives that may be
appropriate to recognize the work of Canadian military personnel.
Financial Implications:
There are no financial implications arising from this report.
Background/Purpose:
I am in receipt of correspondence from City Council and Toronto Police Association President
Dave Wilson expressing interest in the Toronto Police Service's participation in a campaign to
express support for Canadian military personnel (correspondence appended).
Discussion:
I recommend that the Board receive the correspondence appended to this report and that the
Board request that the Chief of Police report on any initiatives that may be appropriate to
recognize the work of Canadian military personnel.
The Board approved the foregoing report.

I just got this e-mail from the Pantalone campaign:

"A new poll conducted October 7-9th by the Logit Group shows a steady swing in momentum towards Joe Pantalone.  For the first time Joe's support has topped 20%, while Rob Ford's support has sunk into the 30s. Between the two is George Smitherman. The sharp rise in Joe's numbers, and the fall in Ford's support, creates a clear three way contest in Toronto's mayoral race."

As regards this verbal diarrhea "So you are saying that the rights of workers to collectively bargain are second place behind gay rights?..."

No, that's why I have made it quite clear every step of the way that i support Pantalone, i have a sign for him on my front lawn and I've goiven hundreds of dollars to his campaign. What do you think this is some sort of Stalinist show trial where people have to prove their orthodoxy to "the cause"? I don't see what the problem is with saying "I'm voting for Pantalone, but I acknowledge that on some issues Smitherman is less bad than Ford". Its a simple statement of fact. Is it enough to make me vote for him? NO

My point was not about who sits on the police services board. My point is that I do fear that someone openly bigotted and homophobic like Rob Ford becomes mayor there is a risk that it will send a message to the police rank and file that Toronto has a mayor who will turn a blind eye or even nod approvingly to systematic police brutality against gays and lesbians. Right now a lot of cops would LOVE to be able to reenact the bath house raids of 1980 and would also love to go back to the "good old days" of picking up gay men in parks taking them to Cherry Beach and beating them half to death. If those fascistic elements in the police force feel that the mayor of Toronto is their ally - we will see a deterioration in relations between the police and the gay community and then other minorities will be targetted. Having a brazenly racist homophobe as mayor will give a lot of people a new freedom to act on their fascistic tendencies. That concerns me.

We'll see if the Ipsos poll gets confirmed elsewhere but I'm not at all surprised. I said a while ago that i think Ford peaked too soon and is wilting under the scrutiny. Smitherman in some ways is lucky because since he has been the "underdog" lately, no one is talking much about who he is or what he represents - he is just the "anyone but Ford" recepticle. I would say that there is about an 80% chance that Smitherman will win in the end. The Ipsos poll has him leading 38-32% among people who say they are certain to vote and on top of that I think that anyone undecided at this stage is probably someone who has ruled out Ford and is undecided between Smitherman and Pantalone. Rossi has just announced he is dropping out - which doesn't make much difference since his support was so low anyways.

Meanwhile, there are some silver linings in all of this. If things had gone "according to plan" and the Smitherman "juggernaut" had swept him in - not only would he be mayor, but he would have tremendous momentum behind him to push his agenda. Instead Georgy Porgy will like crawl over the finish line after running a weak campaign and after having to beg people like Joe Mihevc and John Sewell to support him - not to mention that it will be common knowledge that no one ever liked him - they just didn't want Ford. If we have to have a mayor Smitherman - better to have one that has a weak mandate and who may be forced to make more compromises with the left than one would romped home in a landslide.

Maybe Rossi will run for the Libs in Eglinton-Lawrence in the next federal election?

"Labour" and the "NDP organization" are basically the same thing. There is almost zero in the way of an NDP "machine" that isn't people on loan from unions in the first place. What little "NDP organization" there is in Toronto that doesn't overlap completely with the unions are either campaigning for Pantalone (esp. in Trinity-Spadina where his campaign is running in tandem with Mike Layton) or are more concerned with some very close city council races. If Pantalone ends up a distant third with 15% of the vote - don't start whining that its all because the "NDP organization" didn't come out to work for him - that's about as lame as Harper trying to blame Michael Ignatieff for Canada not getting on the UN security council. The modest number of NDP activists in Toronto who aren't also union members are all private citizens who volunteer for campaigns out of the goodness of their hearts. No one can just press a button and produce some army of NDP door knockers. They have to WANT to do it. If you don't think enough people are volunteering for Pantalone - I think it is a sad comment on him as a candidate. People have to feel motivated to volunteer their time for someone. They need to see momemtum and see a candidate who is inspiring and has charisma. 

Does this mean that the Allen tunnel is dead?

There has been a lot of lukewarm negative imaging coming from inside the NDP, which certainly hasn't helped bring up the numbers. It is hard to tell how deep the loser mentality is embedded in the organization, but there has been total apathy from the party on the ground, so it stands to reason it is endemic.