Netanyahu: 'Take Off the Gloves' and 'Go All the Way' -- Israel attacks Gaza

Stockholm wrote:

What would happen if Hamas simply stopped ever firing rockets at Israel ever again, forever and ever?

What would be the upside? Would there be any downside?

Downside: We'd lose your acute analysis forever. You'd have to go back to posting about Robert Mugabe.

And, as the Israeli consulate here in Montréal pontificates to the effect that Gazan families shouldn't let their kids play footie on the beach, the ENTIRE WORLD has seen the story of SLUMKID who scores in favelas, rural and urban slums and refugee camps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP67IM1LX-M

SLUMKID can't even dream is Gaza.

The bulldozers continue to roll, territory keeps getting gobbled up, evictions are proceeding apace, the citizenry is walled off in every direction, and the movement of people is severely hampered by heavily armed Israeli checkpoints, barbed wire and daily humiliation as a routine.  All you have going for you over there is not 'better,' but just another version of a concentration camp, like Gaza.  Theresienstadt was dressed up and presented as a 'better' place as well.  At every turn it seems you assholes have taken up with some of the worst examples Europe could provide in order to extract new service from old lies.

This article by Nick Kristof in the New York Times makes a lot of sense 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-whos-r...

Israeli leaders, starting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, think that the way to protect their citizens is to invade Gaza and blow up tunnels — and, if Gazan civilians and children die, that’s sad but inevitable. And some Gazans think that they’re already in an open-air prison, suffocating under the Israeli embargo, and the only way to achieve change is fire rockets — and if some Israeli children die, that’s too bad, but 100 times as many Palestinian children are dying already.

In fact, we’ve seen this movie before: Israel responded to aggression by invading Lebanon in 1982 and 2006, and Gaza in 2008; each time, hawks cheered. Yet each invasion in retrospect accomplished at best temporary military gains while killing large numbers of innocents; they didn’t solve any problems.

Likewise, Palestinian militancy has accomplished nothing but increasing the misery of the Palestinian people. If Palestinians instead turned more to hugeGandhi-style nonviolence resistance campaigns, the resulting videos would reverberate around the world and Palestine would achieve statehood and freedom.

Some Palestinians understand this and are trying this strategy, but too many define nonviolence to include rock-throwing. No, that doesn’t cut it.

Stockholm wrote:

This article by Nick Kristof in the New York Times makes a lot of sense  

I'm sure it does for people like you.  Imperialist megaphones are not content to merely equate resistance to oppression as terrorism, but would like to dictate the terms of how resistence, if anyone dares to offer it, is supposed to be conducted.  The situation created by israel for Palestinians citizens in the West Bank provides us with all we need to know regarding the extent to which non-violent forms of resistence impresses the Israeli government and it's army.  They like it just fine.  Again with this nonsense of yours.

Slumberjack wrote:

Your posts represent an endless stream of nonsense, but it's me who gets suppressed by the mods for what they describe as years of incomprehension.

If the mods are actually suppressing you - it restores my faith in humanity! 

Breaking: In Latest Attack on Gaza Medical Site, IDF Shells al-Aqsa Hospital; 5 Dead, Dozens Hurt

video or transcript

In breaking news from the Gaza Strip, at least five people were killed today and dozens wounded when the Israeli military shelled the al-Aqsa Hospital. It is at least the third Israeli military attack on a Gaza hospital since the ground invasion on Thursday. Speaking from Gaza’s overrun al-Shifa Hospital, Norwegian doctor Mads Gilbert accuses Israel of directly targeting medical facilities. Gilbert helped treat many of the victims of Israel’s attack on the Shejaiya neighborhood, where 72 people were killed. We also speak with Democracy Now! correspondent Sharif Abdel Kouddous, reporting from Gaza City.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/21/breaking_in_latest_attack_on_gaza

An eyewitness report by Norwegian emergency doctor Mads Gilbert:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-...

A French translation, if useful for anyone here: http://info-palestine.eu/spip.php?article14739

I know this is a large image, but I think it's worth posting.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthorit... the Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces[/url]

Netanyahoo is a terrorist...Harper supports him and his genocidal Lukid regime.

Stephen Harper is a war criminal.

I think Gwynne Dyer hits the nail on the head here

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2014/07/17/gaza-viole...

"Hamas’ motive for wanting a little war is more obvious and urgent: It has lost almost all of its sources of funding.

Iran stopped funding its budget to the tune of $20 million per month when Hamas sided with the Sunni rebels in the Syrian civil war. Egypt stopped helping it after last year’s military coup against Mohamed Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood government, and closed the tunnels under the border through which the Gaza Strip received most of its imported goods. Those imports were Hamas’ main source of tax revenue. Hamas is broke, and if it stays broke, its control over the Strip will weaken.

Whereas a war with Israel will rally the local Palestinians to its support, and if enough of them are killed, Egypt and the Gulf states may feel compelled to give Hamas financial aid.

So the only real question is how many dead Palestinians will satisfy both Netanyahu’s need to look tough and Hamas’s need to rebuild popular support at home and get financial help from abroad."

Of course the leaders of Hamas are holed up in a luxury compound in Qatar far away from the danger where they can launch their rockets by remote control in safety...they aren't exactly doing what Churchill, King George and Queen Elizabeth did during the London Blitz (ie: staying in London and personally getting involved in civil defence and displaying of solidarity with their own people under attack)?

Stockholm wrote:

The "inmates" in Gaza may be desperate - but they are not calling the shots - the decisions to fire rockets are being made by Hamas leaders living in cushy palaces in Qatar who see this as a game of 3-dimensional chess.

Translation:

Palestians have no agency they are mindless zealots who all follow orders from afar unlike the calm and professional IDF who should be commended for their restraint.

Your comment is anti-semitic.

Stockholm wrote:

The "inmates" in Gaza may be desperate - but they are not calling the shots - the decisions to fire rockets are being made by Hamas leaders living in cushy palaces in Qatar who see this as a game of 3-dimensional chess.

As you may know, when the Germans entered Poland in 1939 all traces of leadership and intellegentisa had been already marked for death.  Many fled the country to try and conduct their affairs in exile.  The Nazi occupiers didn't want a leadership cadre that could galvanize resistance to the order that they presided over, which was one where the citizens not to be annihilated outright were to be enslaved into the service of the Reich.  Israel has a well documented track record of assassinating leaders in Gaza, and with drone warfare so commonplace these days to the point where death can rain down instantly and without warning at any second of the day, it would be impossible for any person to openly declare themselves as leaders and still live in Gaza.  We can note in the Israeli context that among the first things to go up in a fireball when conflict is re-initiated are schools and hospitals, which the Israelis consider too much of a priviledge bestowed upon the inmates, which simply can't be tolerated whenever an opportunity presents itself to get rid of them.  These facilities would represent centers of leadership or potential leadership, even if some of them are children.  The notion of peace in the West Bank but not in Gaza, presented as the obstacle to a so called comprehensive peace, is a complete fallacy.  Throughout the long period of their relative silence and resignation to their fate, the lives of West Bank residents have not improved to serve as an example to the residents in Gaza and their leaders of what rewards await them if they would simply bow before their overlords, or doff the cap in the correct way like inmates were once made to do before their SS jailers.  In fact, it has worsened with the unchecked expansion of settlements, economic strangulation, and everything else that can be expected in the relationship between an elite master race occupier and their subjects.

Quote:

I guess you didn't bother to read what Dyer had to say about Netanyahu's motive's for wanting conflict:

I don't care for anything Dyer has to say about anything, and even less about the motives of a mass murderer.

Slumberjack wrote:

I don't care for anything Dyer has to say about anything, and even less about the motives of a mass murderer.

OK, I get where you're coming from - its basically "don't bother me with facts i have a closed mind - Israel evil, Hamas are angels" - there is no point engaging with you when you have such a simplistic Manichean view of the situation.

Calling an entire country "evil" is racist, dehumanizing and oppressive and guilt by association. Governments and leaders can be "evil" - entire countries cannot.

Hamas is either a political party and/or a terrorist group - depending how you look at it - what adjective would you use to describe Hamas in view of its charter

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Article 22 is particularly entertaining...

For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.

You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.

All of that would have come in handy to the defence if it was available at the time of the trials conducted of SS concentration camp officers, particularly this bit:

Quote:

“At a time of war, the nation under attack is allowed to punish the enemy population with measures it finds suitable, such as blocking supplies or electricity, as well as shelling the entire area according to the army minister’s judgment, and not to needlessly endanger soldiers but rather to take crushing deterring steps to exterminate the enemy,”

kropotkin1951 wrote:

There is lots of racism on the Israeli side.  

Of course there is. One of the reasons why the Middle East is such an intractible conflict is that both sides are filled with people utterly convinced of their own righteousness and of the other side's iniquity. There are two radically different versions of history and both israelis and palestinians have their own "national myths" that portray themselves as innocent victims.

Peace will only come when everyone acknowledges that no one is totally right and no one is totally wrong and that there will have to be some compromise.

Stockholm wrote:

Calling an entire country "evil" is racist, dehumanizing and oppressive and guilt by association. Governments and leaders can be "evil" - entire countries cannot.

Hamas is either a political party and/or a terrorist group - depending how you look at it - what adjective would you use to describe Hamas in view of its charter

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Article 22 is particularly entertaining...

For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.

You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.

 

I'm sorry..I'll rightfully retract and clarify and point the finger directly at Netanyahoo and the Likuds......Fascist oppressors..Sounds pretty evil to me.

BTW,all of Israel's enablers and cheerleaders share in the blame department. Their complicity is also evil.

Stockholm wrote:

Calling an entire country "evil" is racist, dehumanizing and oppressive and guilt by association. Governments and leaders can be "evil" - entire countries cannot.

Hamas is either a political party and/or a terrorist group - depending how you look at it - what adjective would you use to describe Hamas in view of its charter

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Article 22 is particularly entertaining...

For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.

You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.

 

Israel is a State, not a people. There are Israeli Palestinians, Muslims, Christians, etc. To call Israel evil is to call the actions of a State evil. What constitutes evil is a philosophical or theological argument. Suffice it to say that the West is financing genocide. The elimination of the Palestinian people is on record in the Knesset as a goal of Israel. While the same might be said of Hamas, or other groups looking to obliterate Israel, Israel holds all the cards. They are well-funded and have more military might than could possibly be garnered by their opponents. For every Israeli death there are dozens of Palestinian deaths. Not a battle of equals. Israel specifically targets children. Gaza, Hamas, does not. It's more random. I would categorize their actions as evil, easily. Besides, as an occupied, barricaded people, what the hell would anyone expect Gaza to do?