Ontario Election June 7, 2018

SocialJustice101 wrote:

Riiiiiiight....

SJ, there was never any possibility that the OLP could possibly have been re-elected this year.  No scenario would have brought them from behind to beat the PC's.  No governing party as unpopular as the OLP was coming into this election has ever been re-elected in Canada.

So kindly give the "the OLP could have beaten Ford but the ONDP can't" thing a rest.  If Ford gets in, its solely Wynne's fault.  And the polls show that an ONDP victory is a real possibility, and a far likelier possibility than an OLP comeback could ever have been this year.  

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

And if you believe his sister-in-law, Doug Ford mismanaged the family business and lost millions.

But as Premier, he'd have people for that stuff.

How many times did Trump go bankrupt?

Yeah, and if it weren’t for the fact that the U.S. government can print money, he would drive it into bankruptcy.

Why Electronic Voting in the Ontario Election is a Mistake

http://rabble.ca/news/2018/06/why-electronic-voting-ontario-election-mis...

"Ontario is imposing automated counting precisely at a time when others are waking up to the hazards. We have no guarantee the June 7 official election results will reflect the choices made by voters..."

Wynne’s campaign would have from no Wynne.

Leaders with passion are more likely to grab the attention of voters.   Look at Trump vs Hillary.   One of them had passion, while the other one did not.   And we all know how that turned out.

SocialJustice101 wrote:

Leaders with passion are more likely to grab the attention of voters.   Look at Trump vs Hillary.   One of them had passion, while the other one did not.   And we all know how that turned out.

It depends on who else is on the playing field. In this case Horwath needed to pick up Liberal voters and maybe some Conservatives too. Had she been fighting both the Liberals and the Conservatives then she would have to go more left. Her goal now is to replace the Liberals.

bekayne wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Actually if Ford wins, Liberals will be the ones to blame, and NDPers will remember that in the next federal election 

From today's Research Co. poll:

https://researchco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Tables_Ontario_06Jun201...

17% of those who voted NDP in the 2014 election intend to vote PC

18% of those who voted NDP in the 2015 federal election intend to vote PC

According to this poll, most people who voted for the Liberals in the 2015 federal election will be voting for the ONDP in this election:

2015 Federal Liberal Voters:
ONDP: 39%
OLP: 35
OPC: 24
OGP: 3

These numbers show there is a huge overlap between NDP and Liberal voters. Another poll showed that if the entire electorate had to choose only between the ONDP and OPC, the ONDP would win by 60% to 40%.

JKR wrote:

These numbers show there is a huge overlap between NDP and Liberal voters.

Exactly.

And that's one of the challenges that the Liberals & the NDP both have, and it's also why they are such bitter rivals.

And it's why the Conservatives often benefit.

Not really.  Haven't budged much all the way around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_general_election,_2018

Herein lies my hope.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/06/06/youth-vote-is...

There is credible research that voter turnout increases with age; the largest block of voters tend to be 65 and over and the smallest block tend to be young people between 18 and 25. But the past is not all that the future holds.

The last Ontario election in 2014 saw a small increase in overall voter turnout. Notably, in the 2015 federal election voter turnout was at its highest since 1993: 57.1 per cent of young people aged 18 to 24 and 57.4 per cent of those aged 25 to 34 showed up to vote, thus increasing turnout in their age groups by 18.3 points and 12.3 points respectively.

In this provincial election, young people are the largest voting cohort, outnumbering baby boomers.

......Young Black people have told me about how they navigate their often-left-leaning politics with the social conservatism and sometimes big-C conservatism of their parents.....

Notalib wrote:

I am chuckling..... Ford's win can be blamed on Wynne? lol

The NDP for over a decade has been a conservative assist party, if they don't assist their electoral success and find themselves in government, they simply undertake their agenda. The evidence is abundant. Yet here the choir seems stuck on the Liberals did it note. Wonder why that is?

 

That's because the NDP is a slighly Left of Centre REFORMIST party that thinks it can change things by working within a system that naturally does what it does for the last 40 years...And from the French Revolution up to the stock market crash of 1929. These types of parties ,Social Democrats, still think they can sand off the rough edges of capitalism while maintaining it ( see: FDR). Quite clearly they are fighting a losing battle. That's why, whenever they gain power the best they can offer is a few offsets to ameliorate the effects of the system. This, of course, never matches their campaign rhetoric which inevitably leaves people angry and disaffected. And the cheerleaders of those types of parties ( Marx would have called them Petty Bourgeois types) can't see the forest through the trees on this. When you abandon the working class and all you can really offer for "change" is peacemeal reforms, you have little or nothing to offer to begin with. This is why they lose and when they win, they maintain the economic status quo...Or blame someone else for their failures...

welder wrote:

Notalib wrote:

I am chuckling..... Ford's win can be blamed on Wynne? lol

The NDP for over a decade has been a conservative assist party, if they don't assist their electoral success and find themselves in government, they simply undertake their agenda. The evidence is abundant. Yet here the choir seems stuck on the Liberals did it note. Wonder why that is?

 

 

That's because the NDP is a slighly Left of Centre REFORMIST party that thinks it can change things by working within a system that naturally does what it does for the last 40 years...And from the French Revolution up to the stock market crash of 1929. These types of parties ,Social Democrats, still think they can sand off the rough edges of capitalism while maintaining it ( see: FDR). Quite clearly they are fighting a losing battle. That's why, whenever they gain power the best they can offer is a few offsets to ameliorate the effects of the system. This, of course, never matches their campaign rhetoric which inevitably leaves people angry and disaffected. And the cheerleaders of those types of parties ( Marx would have called them Petty Bourgeois types) can't see the forest through the trees on this. When you abandon the working class and all you can really offer for "change" is peacemeal reforms, you have little or nothing to offer to begin with. This is why they lose and when they win, they maintain the economic status quo...Or blame someone else for their failures...

FDR didn't do too badly.  And Canada has certainly benefitted from Medicare.

The difficulties today are more complex and diverse.  But people like Corbyn and Sanders are pointing the way.  It will be up to those younger to move the boulder back to the top.