Saudis retaliate after Canada criticizes human rights violations

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Sounds like that tweet hit a nerve. Good.

I do feel sorry for the students being told to pack up and leave because of their government.

Haven't been following that part of the story. Who is telling them they have to leave - the Saudis or Canada? If the former, can they apply for refugee status?

Saudi Arabia Sells Off Canadian Assets as Dispute Escalates

https://twitter.com/FT/status/1027173446621573120

I should add that the Saudi students are probably studying in Canada to improve BOTH French and/or English 

A good overview of the dispute

Canada-Saudi Arabia Showdown

https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.4041860

Kamran Bohkari - Center for Global Policy - University of Otttawa

"Canada plans to seek help from UAE and Britain to defuse escalating diplomatic dispute with Saudi Arabia, sources said on Tuesday."

https://twitter.com/anthonyfenton/status/1026937248455909376

Anthony Fenton's Twitter feed is an excellent updating source of information on this dispute.

Lets see here, 

International students are sought after heavyly because they are the golden goose.  I had quick look at the the fees that domestic students and international student pay.  For undergard and dipolmas they pay twice as much, minimum.  The Saudi Arbia is substilzeds our students.  Were enjoy lower fees domesticaly becasue the international stundents pay higher fees.  

While this serious I think it could get worst, becasue Canada sells weapons on the international market.  Saudi's are huge weapons importer, if the Suadis start cancelling contracts for weapons then we going to major escalation of this rift.  This grain thing, educational thing, and hosiptial thing are peanuts compared to cancel and stopping futher weapons sales.

It also stunning to me that how weak we are in the dipolmatic realm.  Now I realiaze that countries dont have friends but interests.  You think would think we could find some nations with similiar interests to help out.  We look kinda isolated, we are reaching out to Britian and UAE.  Personaly I have my doubts Britain is hooked in the arms markets like Canada andUAE is fighting a shadow war in ME with Saudi coalititon agaisnt the Iranians.  We seem to be isolated at this point dipolaticaly, we will see what the future brings.

WWWTT wrote:

LOL! Let me ask you something Unionist, what makes you think that these Saudi students studying in Canada would want to give up going back to their country where they were born, grew up and probably have family?

I don't actually care what happens to these pampered children of the Saudi royal murdering class. If they want to go back, let them go. Who exactly is stopping them? In fact, didn't Saudi Arabia just say they have to come back? And aren't there some kind-hearted Canadians feeling sorry for them? I'm not among them.

Quote:

I even seriously doubt that these students would even qualify for refugee status? Not to mention that most are not even in Canada at this point(summer vacation). So in order for them to claim refugee status, they would have to find a way to Canada first.

Once again, I don't really care. I imagined there might be one or two that would like to stay in Canada rather than return to that shithole of a country and learn to torture and behead people. If so, I'm hoping we would consider them as refugees. Kind of like Omar whom we were sending home today, until the United Nations asked us not to.

Do you agree with my take?

One must grudgingly respect the position taken by the Canadian government, however momentary and partial it may be. 

Unionist wrote

Once again, I don't really care. I imagined there might be one or two that would like to stay in Canada rather than return to that shithole of a country and learn to torture and behead people. If so, I'm hoping we would consider them as refugees. Kind of like Omar whom we were sending home today, until the United Nations asked us not to.

Do you agree with my take?

Sorry brother but I do not agree. I would never call another country a "shit hole" and define that country by one (or several) aspects in their justice/political/social systems.

Their country appears to be based around their religous and cultural beliefs. Obviously it's not for you, and I'm going to take a good guess that you're not going to Mecca any time soon.

Over 20 years ago I had a Sudanese girlfriend that was Islamic and used to work for the Saudi royal family as a handmaiden for the princesses. She even tried to convince me to convert. I was actually surprised that she openly told me that she would be OK with me having several girlfriends! But that was her culture. Her culture is very different. And the country where she came from does have some serious problems. She would even tell me about the many problems in Sudan at the time. And I believed her! Keep in mind this was before the internet, so unless I went to the library, my knowledge was very limited in regards to Sudan. 

Now our cultural backgrounds were too much for me to overcome for us to get married and have children together, but she seemed willing and I would never call her country something like a shithole because something like that could get lost or misinterpreted in translation.

Unionist wrote:

Oh brilliant comeback - you ignored every single thing I said, and focused only on my calling Saudi Arabia a "shithole". Excellent discussion strategy.

Ok, I now officially call Saudi Arabia "a recognized sovereign state with a royal family in charge".

Do you agree with the rest of what I said?

I don't think I can either agree or disagree with the rest of your comment? But I do aknowledge that you are clarifying your position. Albeit it's through a good solid rant!

@ Unionist

I don't agree either, actually. Seems to me this whole thing started with S.A. reacting to Canada standing up for some of those "pampered children" (and really, we are just talking about students with an international scholarship). I don't know how those now studying here feel about having their scholarships yanked and being told to go home, but I presume that in itself is a great inconvenience, even without knowing what peoples' politics are.

The quote isn't in this story (it was in a CBC radio piece) but Livia Castellanos, the Associate Vice-President and Chief International Officer at UR International said that the Saudi students were an important part of the international student community, and that them being forced to leave was a loss to everyone.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/saudi-arabia-university-stud...

Unionist wrote:

WWWTT: You asked me (Unionist) some questions. I answered them - click here to see my replies. It's your turn. Do you agree with my replies? Partially? Not in the slightest? Do you have follow-up questions? Can we actually discuss this issue please?

I like you Unionist because not only you're my brother, but because you don't hold a grudge against me when we disagree!

OK I'm disagreeing with you and you're all over the place with your rants. I prefer to just aknowledge your position, and take jabs at other comments you make. But maybe I'm over thinking this? Maybe I better take a break and shut the computer off and come back tomorrow. Please have a little mercy on me thanks ;)

NDPP wrote:

I predict the future will bring shameful a accommodation to the 'realpolitic' of Saudi money and power. And as you can see a means to a 'climb-down' is already being sought and supported, even by some here.  

With 'friends' like USA and Israel firmly on the side of the Saudis,  the end to this fiasco seems already obvious. Like our official response to Israeli crimes, Freeland's perfunctory tweet on the Badawis is as far as Canada is prepared to go, unless there is serious political pressure to get serious. Cancelling our obscene arms trade with Saudi Arabia would be an obvious and ethically necessary first step.

Cancellation of arms deals will happen only if Saudi Arabia does it.

He who worships the petro-dollar, can get slapped by the petro-dollar. Corporate shill Trudeau worships it both abroad and at home (pipeline).

The arms deal is still ok with the Canada Government (tm),and will only be cancelled at the Saudi's whim. After all, they have the bucks and limitless eager arms dealers from the US (especially), and the UK, etc. 

Canada is easy to make a calculated example of , showing what can happen to any weak would-be trading partner who postures, however ineffectually, on SA's abysmal human rights record.

Here's "human rights" poseur Freeland after the event:

Freeland says questions on armoured vehicle deal are for Saudi Arabia

Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland said questions about whether Saudi Arabia’s decision to freeze trade with Canada would affect the light armoured deal are ones to ask the Arab kingdom.

https://globalnews.ca/video/4373338/freeland-says-questions-on-armoured-...

Some history:

Justin Trudeau defends Canada's arms sales to Saudi Arabia

Trudeau argues that sale of more than 900 armoured vehicles is in line with Canada’s foreign and defense policies...

The C$15bn ($11.63bn) deal – struck by the previous Conservative government in 2014 and given the green light after Trudeau became prime minister – has been in the spotlight in recent years amid growing concerns about Riyadh’s human rights record....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/justin-trudeau-defends-can...

Freeland: No evidence Canadian-made LAVS were used against Saudi citizens

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/freeland-no-evidence-canadian-made-lavs-...

Murray Brewster · CBC News · Posted: Mar 19, 2018 9:00 PM ET | Last Updated: March 20

Canada's arms deal with Saudi Arabia includes 'heavy assault' vehicles

'These are combat-ready vehicles and certainly not the jeeps that the government once told us that they were'

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-saudi-arms-deal-1.4579772

Date 04.08.2017

Canada faces calls to freeze arms sales to Saudi Arabia

Canada is investigating reports that Saudi Arabia has been employing armored trucks made near Toronto in violence against civilians. Rights groups say Ottawa should suspend weapon sales to Riyadh.

The government also said it "expressed its concerns" with Saudi Arabia that its security operation in the eastern part of the country must comply with international law, said Natasha Nystrom, a spokesperson for Global Affairs Canada, the foreign ministry.

"If it is found that Canadian exports have been used to commit serious violations of human rights, the minister will take action," Nystrom told DW in an email.

According to the Globereport, images shared on social media appear to show Saudi forces employing Gurkha RPVs, made by Terradyne Armored Vehicles near Toronto, Canada's largest city, in their operation in the Qatif governorate.

Military experts confirmed the type of vehicle in the images, the newspaper reported.

https://www.dw.com/en/canada-faces-calls-to-freeze-arms-sales-to-saudi-a...

And finally, there is the March 2018 smoke and mirrors arms dealer legislation.  

The Liberal's C-47 Bill was supposed herald accountability in arms sales, but as NDP foreign affairs critic Hélène Laverdière points out, it is largely PR:

June 11th, 2018

NDP: Liberals Must Withdraw Arms Trade Treaty bill

....

Many Canadian weapons exported to the United States are then exported on as components of weapons systems sold to other countries, including Saudi Arabia and Nigeria – but Canada does not keep records. In March, Liberal MPs on the Foreign Affairs Committee voted against an NDP amendment that would require annual reporting of these exports to Parliament....

http://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-liberals-must-withdraw-arms-trade-treaty-bill

Well the clear indication should be in the quotation in my first paragraph Unionist. I disagree with your dismissal of these students as "pampered children", and with your indifference.

And if you finish the sentence you started you will have the answer you can't seem to find.

It's right there, although it was already pointed out in an earlier article that the Saudi government is pulling its scholarships, and telling students to come home.

I think we touched on that one already too. I know I did upthread.

Just finished an interesting email exchange with someone who teaches english in Riyadh. Some of his students are from well connected princely families and say Freeland's tweet was considered disrespectful, especially coming from a woman and a country considered a 'lesser' power. Furthermore, he says it was considered a serious breach of protocol for such a 'demand' to be 'tweeted to the world' instead of a proper diplomatic letter through official channels. Apparently those on high noticed it only after it had already been shared widely among young Saudis on social media. That this 'embarrassing insult' to the Kingdom came from 'the Americans' servant' in Ottawa was especially irksome. Lots of pics of 'Trudeau in full pride mode' and vids of his 'dancing in India' are now making the rounds, he said. He said the news is that the mood of the monarchy towards Canada  is 'angry and insulted' and he doesn't think this will end anytime soon.

There's a common denominator to autocratic or dictators leaders in the world now and for ever in the past ...They are ALL thin-skinned little babies who can't take the mildest of criticism. Canada is standing firm and I say GOOD. Our annual trade with  SA is $15B which is 2 DAYS of trade with the US. We don't need them. The only trade we have been doing with the Saudis is military equipment. Good. Less weapons for them to decimate Yemen.MBS can go fuck himself.

But I will say this. The Saudis practice a radical nut job version of Islam called Wahhabism. They export this shit in all the mosques they open all around the world. This is the brand of Islam fanatical terrorists practice.

If we have a major terror attack here,we all know who'd be responsible. Canada should cut off all trade and all ties with the Saudis and disassociate with these petulant children just like the leaders US,Turkey and the Phillipines. Thin skinned assholes with a delusion of being seen as tough. They always show how insecure,weak and cowardly they really are.

Fuck Saudi Arabia. Ignore them. Let them cry and their tears drown their tar sands. 

"I'm disgusted Canada is being portrayed as a brave defender of human rights in Saudi Arabia. Canada issued one very mild tweet after years of effectively ignoring abuses, and providing weapons to the Saudis for their destruction of Yemen. The Canadian government isn't brave."

https://twitter.com/DavideMastracci/status/1027273890878369792

"When two nations spar, innocent civilians suffer...University of Ottawa law and medicine professor Amir Attaran said a Saudi student he did not know knocked on his door Tuesday, pleading for help to stay in the country..."

https://twitter.com/AnujChopra/status/1027356581162360832

Smithee wrote:

Yesa. Let's smear Canada. Let's ignore the Saudi autocrat child prince. I can't believe anyone would trash us and defend the Saudi royals. I suspect this David Mastracci person is a big C conservative. Who cares what he thinks?

Well, if I'm reading him correctly, Mastracci isn't defending the Saudis. He's saying that Canada should have been HARDER on them.

 Canada's Liberal Image Gets Snared By $11.5 bn Saudi Arms Deal  

https://on.rt.com/9c37

"...But it was the Saudis' veiled threat of more punitive actions that perhaps alarmed the Canadian government most. The Saudi foreign minister said his country was looking at 'additional measures against Canada.' It's an open secret that the Saudis were referring to a major weapons contract that is being finalized with Canada. The arms deal is worth$15 billion..."

RT America: Saudi-Canadian Tensions Rising (@ 7:20)

https://youtu.be/ZsMuDUSHPtE

"Good riddance to Saudi Arabia here..."

Quote:

Loss of medical residents:

Well, it was this year that a shortage of residency spots got highlighted in the news.  And the good news is, if the med students who weren't placed aren't Saudi, maybe they'll actually stay and practice medicine here after they get the residency they need.

Did The Donald Put The Saudis Up To Their Tantrum?

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/08/09/did-the-donald-put-the-saudis-up-to-thei...

"There is a reason the US State Department refused to answer when asked directly if they had known about, and therefore tacitly approved of the Saudi flip-out before it happened. One thing the world has learned about Trump is that he is a master of payback. So why not Trudeau?

Beyond the joys of revenge, which Trump clearly revels in, the halting of all international trade between Canada and Saudi Arabia might have a practical benefit for the president. With NAFTA still under negotiation, Trump might believe that the Saudis economic punishment of Canada could soften Canada up to make a deal.

The Donald takes down numbers and Trudeau's might just have come up."