This Should Be the NDP's Moment to Shine

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josh

The Republican Party is by no means destroyed at the federal level. It is one seat away from controlling the Senate and 5 seats away from controlling the House  I think it's naive to believe that there won't be a party to the right of the Liberals who won't constitute a viable threat for power.  It will never be just the NDP and the Liberals.

Pondering

josh wrote:

The Republican Party is by no means destroyed at the federal level. It is one seat away from controlling the Senate and 5 seats away from controlling the House  I think it's naive to believe that there won't be a party to the right of the Liberals who won't constitute a viable threat for power.  It will never be just the NDP and the Liberals.

The party capitulated to Trump. They will lose the house and the senate because 70% of Republicans believe that the election was stolen and Trump won. That is 70% of about 50% of Americans. So around 30% believe it was stolen, 70% believe it was not and that the 30 percent that do are crazies. 

A party in the US or Canada that cannot appeal to moderates (swing voters) cannot win an election. The Senate in the US is a little different because they are elected by states which have disproportionate influence. Even so the writing is on the wall. Demographics are changing and gerrymandering will be overcome by it.

cco

"Thing that happened a short few years ago is destined never to happen again", 'expert' with deep investment in inevitability of own viewpoint says. Funny how often I've heard that. In fact, I remember hearing that the Reform/Alliance/CPC could never win. It comes from the same place as the "vote-splitting" armchair analysis – investment in the concept of both voter behaviour and party behaviour as granite-carved constants.

Pondering

Party behavior has been pretty consistent. It's the times that are changing. Republicans and Conservatives have painted themeselves into a corner by encouraging division, hostility and extremism. They can't just put the cats back in the bag now. 

Look who will be back in the news in the run up to the next election.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/leslyn-lewis-conservative-party-1.5724076

She went from political obscurity to centre-stage in the Conservative leadership race overnight. Now, Leslyn Lewis says she intends to run in the next election for a seat long held by the Conservatives in southwestern Ontario....

Lewis launched herself into the political spotlight during the Conservative leadership race. A Black lawyer from the Toronto area with a PhD in law and a Masters in Environmental Science, she was open about her socially conservative views; she wants to restrict access to medical aid in dying and ban sex-selective abortions.

She will win the seat if she runs for it. Her views will be front and centre on full display for swing voters. Derek Sloan will be vocal too. 

Aristotleded24

Look at how Singh has handled hateful people here and here.

Funny how individuals can be disruptive, yelling, heckling, and even implying that he's not a real Canadian and he takes that with a smile, and yet larger numbers of people question the covid narrative and he wants to call the police on them?

Love and courage indeed.

Aristotleded24

Debater wrote:
I don't see Trudeau winning a majority in the next election unless the BQ collapses and the Liberals can pick up more seats in Quebec.  I think the best the Liberals can do right now is another Minority.

I completely disagree. I've been spending more time on a few right-wing news sites mainly because they are the only ones actually questioning the covid narrative. There are many Conservatives unhappy with O'Toole's leadership, and Mad Max is making a hard play for those votes. That's enough to spit the vote right there. I also posted upthread why I think Singh has failed as NDP leader, how the NDP will fail to distinguish itself from the Liberals to almost everyone but NDP diehards, and the similarities between the 2014 Ontario provincial election (Singh was part of that NDP caucus) and what is happening now.

NDPP

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh talks with Jewish Community

https://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/ndp-leader-jagmeet-singh-talks-with-j...

"Singh spoke positively of his 2016 fact-finding mission to Israel, [and] about the Jewish state's nation-building experiment..."

Debater

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Debater wrote:
I don't see Trudeau winning a majority in the next election unless the BQ collapses and the Liberals can pick up more seats in Quebec.  I think the best the Liberals can do right now is another Minority.

I completely disagree. I've been spending more time on a few right-wing news sites mainly because they are the only ones actually questioning the covid narrative. There are many Conservatives unhappy with O'Toole's leadership, and Mad Max is making a hard play for those votes. That's enough to spit the vote right there. I also posted upthread why I think Singh has failed as NDP leader, how the NDP will fail to distinguish itself from the Liberals to almost everyone but NDP diehards, and the similarities between the 2014 Ontario provincial election (Singh was part of that NDP caucus) and what is happening now.

There are always a few disgruntled right-wingers who don't think the Conservatives are right-wing enough.  But most Conservatives support their own at election time and that is why the Cons usually have a turnout advantage over the Libs & NDP.

As for Mad Max, he failed to even win his own seat in the last election.  Unless he can actually start taking seats away from the Cons, he does not pose much of a threat.

And where are the Libs going to get enough seats to form a Majority next time?

Atlantic Canada -- the Libs are not going to sweep all the seats like they did in 2015, so there's not much potential for gains.

Quebec -- unless the BQ drops in support, the most the Libs can hope for is picking up a couple more seats.

Ontario -- Libs are almost maxed out, except for a few possible ridings.

Manitoba -- where do the Libs gain new seats?

Alberta/Sask -- how likely are the Libs to win anything in these 2 provinces in the near future?

BC -- possible gain or two, but not many openings.

Pondering

Pundits don't seem to think the Liberals are maxed out in Ontario. 

We won't see an election until fall at the soonest and possibly not until next spring. 

They don't need a majority to govern like one. Harper taught them that and now they are in an even stronger position than Harper ever was. For the sake of argument let's say the Liberals just win another minority which I accept is a likely outcome. 50% to 41% is fairly even.  

How long would it take for the NDP to be prepared to force another election by voting against the government in a confidence vote?  Will they even force one in the fall or will the Liberals be forced to call an election if they want one?

The main point, which I think the Liberals are well aware of, is that it is almost impossible for the Conservatives or NDP to win the next election nor the one after that unless things change dramatically in unforeseeable ways, like climate change being debunked as a hoax, or majority support for ending immigration, or society deciding women's and LBGTQ rights should be repealed.

I give the NDP a better chance of being the government that follows the Liberals federally than I do the Conservatives, not that the Conservatives will drop below 28-30% or stop being the party with the most money. 

Aristotleded24

Debater wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Debater wrote:
I don't see Trudeau winning a majority in the next election unless the BQ collapses and the Liberals can pick up more seats in Quebec.  I think the best the Liberals can do right now is another Minority.

I completely disagree. I've been spending more time on a few right-wing news sites mainly because they are the only ones actually questioning the covid narrative. There are many Conservatives unhappy with O'Toole's leadership, and Mad Max is making a hard play for those votes. That's enough to spit the vote right there. I also posted upthread why I think Singh has failed as NDP leader, how the NDP will fail to distinguish itself from the Liberals to almost everyone but NDP diehards, and the similarities between the 2014 Ontario provincial election (Singh was part of that NDP caucus) and what is happening now.

There are always a few disgruntled right-wingers who don't think the Conservatives are right-wing enough.  But most Conservatives support their own at election time and that is why the Cons usually have a turnout advantage over the Libs & NDP.

As for Mad Max, he failed to even win his own seat in the last election.  Unless he can actually start taking seats away from the Cons, he does not pose much of a threat.

And where are the Libs going to get enough seats to form a Majority next time?

Atlantic Canada -- the Libs are not going to sweep all the seats like they did in 2015, so there's not much potential for gains.

Quebec -- unless the BQ drops in support, the most the Libs can hope for is picking up a couple more seats.

Ontario -- Libs are almost maxed out, except for a few possible ridings.

Manitoba -- where do the Libs gain new seats?

Alberta/Sask -- how likely are the Libs to win anything in these 2 provinces in the near future?

BC -- possible gain or two, but not many openings.

We'll see how it plays out. These are not normal times, and there are larger numbers of people frustrated with lockdowns who are ready to just get on with life. There's not much media coverage of that right now, but when the election hits, when we get a clearer sense of social media trends, and when the media finally has to start paying attention to things it had been ignoring or become irrelevant, who knows?

BTW, isn't it strange political times where my projection of Liberal seats is more generous for the Liberals than yours? :)

Aristotleded24

Jagmeet Singh is not Trudeau's worst nightmare:

[qoute]

The plan, which seems to aim at making the progressive Singh the center of a personality cult akin to that of popular American social democrats such as Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) has thus far entailed a range of gimmicky social media stunts, from cooking poutine on Instagram to playing the video game Among Us on Twitch with Ocasio-Cortez herself.

The problem is that the Singh people seem to have the cause-effect formula backwards. Sanders, AOC and the various other lefty celebrities who have emerged in the United States as of late, including Democrats such as Ohio’s Nina Turner and Missouri’s Rep. Cori Bush, usually gained their rock-star status only after a cadre of progressive activists and thought-leaders deemed them worthy of attention and elevation.

Singh, by contrast, does not have a similar reserve of goodwill to draw on. Though his position as party chief was reaffirmed by an 87 percent vote at the NDP convention this month, it’s hard to find much evidence he possesses a loyal base beyond the rote allegiance of his party’s hard-core partisans. In the years since the last election, the party’s poll numbers have remained stuck in the teens. His decision to hang on as leader even after leading the NDP to its worst showing since 2004 tested some progressives’ patience, and to the extent Canada possesses a class of left-wing pundits willing to talk about something other than U.S. politics, they’ve been critical of Singh’s perceived moderation on issues such as natural resources and Israel.

...

Watching Singh awkwardly deliver his keynote address to the New Democrats’ convention on April 11 provided a stark reminder of the degree people such as me grossly overestimated his political talents when his name was first floated as a plausible prime minister.

Unlike Justin Trudeau, the progressive prime minister the NDP has the most need to outshine, 42-year-old Singh is not particularly charismatic, and talks in a hesitant “upspeak” that comes off as immature rather than youthful. Where Trudeau promotes his party with soothing promises of kind and compassionate leadership (in a bout of unfortunate timing, Trudeau gave a much better speech to his own partys convention the day before), a Singh pitch rarely consists of more than stiffly reciting a few discordant NDP fixations — these days, national Pharmacare and student debt relief. It’s similar to the problem afflicting Canada’s Conservatives, who also struggle to present themselves as being animated by a single broadly resonating purpose.[/quote]

Pondering

This is provincial, not federal, but I do think it is indicative of mood. The NDP are in majority territory even though Conservatives always win in Alberta.

I don't think that says anything about how Albertans will vote federally in the coming election but it does show  Conservative decline which will continue along with urbanization. 

 

 

 

Pondering

Latest poll has the Liberals down a bit but still virtually guaranteed to win the next election. I don't think it makes much difference if it is a majority or a minority. Once the election is over the NDP will have no choice but to support the Liberals on confidence motions. 

 

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

NorthReport

,,

NorthReport

Nanos Party Power Index

Libs 55.8

NDP 47.3

Cons 45.1

Aristotleded24

*Posted in haste, deleted in reflection as it was not accurate*

Ken Burch

Aristotleded24 wrote:

melovesproles wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:

So yeah, since I was very unhappy with how the left responded to covid, I sought out other sources.  

Yeah, it is obvious what kind of sources you are consuming with your talk of “the left” “the great reset” and Big Statist plans to enslave everyone and make them reliant on government. This isn’t a new argument, you could read almost exactly the same tropes coming out of the John Birch Society in the 1960s.

Have you noticed the level of "we're-all-going-to-die-lockdown-is-the-only-hope" groupthink that has entered into MSM discourse, and by and large endorsed by nearly every left-wing publication in the industralized world? Suppose you have an infectious disease or public health expert who has looked at the data. The only pushback against this groupthink has come from right-wing media sources. Suppose this expert has good, solid reasons to believe that social distancing, masks, and lockdowns don't work and that we don't need a vaccine to go back to normal. Do you really think these media outlets are going to allow said expert to express this view? It's true that news outlets like the Post Millenial, Rebel News, Fox News, Talk Radio (UK) and Sky News are generally trash outlets. But if they are the only ones willing to give a fair hearing to this expert, is that my fault? Is this expert supposed to say, "well, I have information I think the public needs to hear, most media outlets are ignoring me, but I'm not going to go on the few media platforms willing to hear me out fairly because their politics are bad?"

The fact is, there was never an argument for what you demanded...not only no lockdown but no masking and no social distancing, even before the vaccine was found, AND no argument against vaccinations, that wasn't totally reactionary and economic royalist.  Covid was never going to just go away on its own- lethal viruses have never done that- and there was never any way a do-nothing approach could ever have been consistent with any notion of humane, caring, empathy-based values.

And now that we're getting towards the end of this- something we ONLY managed because of lockdowns, social distancing, masking and vaccination- you need to let this go already.  There's no good reason for you to keep fightinf for Trump's approach to Covid.  Too many people have died to make his "ideas"on Covid morally defensible.

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

melovesproles wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:

So yeah, since I was very unhappy with how the left responded to covid, I sought out other sources.  

Yeah, it is obvious what kind of sources you are consuming with your talk of “the left” “the great reset” and Big Statist plans to enslave everyone and make them reliant on government. This isn’t a new argument, you could read almost exactly the same tropes coming out of the John Birch Society in the 1960s.

Have you noticed the level of "we're-all-going-to-die-lockdown-is-the-only-hope" groupthink that has entered into MSM discourse, and by and large endorsed by nearly every left-wing publication in the industralized world? Suppose you have an infectious disease or public health expert who has looked at the data. The only pushback against this groupthink has come from right-wing media sources. Suppose this expert has good, solid reasons to believe that social distancing, masks, and lockdowns don't work and that we don't need a vaccine to go back to normal. Do you really think these media outlets are going to allow said expert to express this view? It's true that news outlets like the Post Millenial, Rebel News, Fox News, Talk Radio (UK) and Sky News are generally trash outlets. But if they are the only ones willing to give a fair hearing to this expert, is that my fault? Is this expert supposed to say, "well, I have information I think the public needs to hear, most media outlets are ignoring me, but I'm not going to go on the few media platforms willing to hear me out fairly because their politics are bad?"

The fact is, there was never an argument for what you demanded...not only no lockdown but no masking and no social distancing, even before the vaccine was found, AND no argument against vaccinations, that wasn't totally reactionary and economic royalist.  Covid was never going to just go away on its own- lethal viruses have never done that- and there was never any way a do-nothing approach could ever have been consistent with any notion of humane, caring, empathy-based values.

And now that we're getting towards the end of this- something we ONLY managed because of lockdowns, social distancing, masking and vaccination- you need to let this go already.  There's no good reason for you to keep fightinf for Trump's approach to Covid.  Too many people have died to make his "ideas"on Covid morally defensible.

With many jurisdictions taking different approaches to the pandemic, along with case drop-offs in many states that opened up with much smaller numbers of the population vaccinated than we have now, I think the data is clear enough on its own that people can look it and draw their own conclusions about what was or wasn't effective.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

cco wrote:
"Thing that happened a short few years ago is destined never to happen again", 'expert' with deep investment in inevitability of own viewpoint says. Funny how often I've heard that. In fact, I remember hearing that the Reform/Alliance/CPC could never win. It comes from the same place as the "vote-splitting" armchair analysis – investment in the concept of both voter behaviour and party behaviour as granite-carved constants.

I remember pundits saying after Bush got reelected in 2004 that the Democrats could no longer win. And then I remember punits saying after Obama got reelected in 2012 that Republicans could no longer win the Presidency.

So yeah, I don't put much stock in these kinds of prognostications.

Mighty Middle

The reported on CTV News last night the number of candidates each party have nominated

Conservatives - 206

Liberals - 152

NDP - 75

Greens - 18

NorthReport

NDP fortunes will rise if they stay focused on the important issues for most Canadians.

Landlords Hate Rent Control Because It’s Good for the Rest of Us

 

 

https://jacobinmag.com/2021/08/landlords-rent-control-housing-markets-te...

NorthReport

In Canada it's time to get the, for profit developers, and the constant secretive / out of sight lobbying, out of politics. Imagine what housing possibilities could be like if the NDP pushed hard for that. 

In Socialist Yugoslavia, Mass Housing Wasn’t Just Ugly Tower Blocks

 

 

https://jacobinmag.com/2021/08/yugoslavia-architecture-socialism-angola-...

NorthReport

A majority is within reach for the Liberals, but the NDP's current level of support could yet throw a wrench into their plans

However, Trudeau’s path to a majority could get hindered from his left flank. With the NDP nearing the 20 per cent mark nationally, the party could realistically increase its deputation by at least a dozens seats, and many of those would come from Ontario and British Columbia. With such levels of support, many urban seats currently held by Liberals MPs should be targeted by Jagmeet Singh’s candidates. Should the NDP be successful in translating this support into votes, the 170-seat threshold could become out of reach for the Liberals, and we would potentially find ourselves in a near-identical Parliament five weeks from now.

 

 

 

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/338canada-trudeaus-election-to-l...

NorthReport

Singh is kicking his campaign off in Quebec - good move!

https://beta.cp24.com/news/2021/8/15/1_5548021.html

NorthReport
NorthReport

Is Singh gaining credibility amongst Canadian voters?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-singhs-popularity-and-r...

NorthReport
NorthReport

Hopefully Singh will throw his support behind this climate debate request

https://thetyee.ca/News/2021/08/18/Suzuki-Atwood-Ondaatje-Lewis-Call-Eme...

NorthReport

Maybe there is going to be a (mini) orange wave but if there is, don't look for it in Canada's mainstream media.

https://www.tooclosetocall.ca/2021/08/who-loses-most-if-there-is-mini-or...

NorthReport

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh Jimmy Dhaliwal first ran federally in 2011, but was first elected later on the same year as an MPP for Bramalea -Gore-Malton in Ontario. In 2015 Jagmeet became NDP Deputy Leader in Ontario. Jagmeet has also lived in Newfoundland and Labrador and is presently the MB for Burnaby South in BC.

Singh was born on January 2, 1979, in ScarboroughOntario, to Harmeet Kaur and Jagtaran Singh,[20] immigrant Indian Punjabi parents from the Indian state of Punjab. His mother is from Ghudani Khurd, in Punjab's Ludhiana district, while his father is from Thikriwala, in Barnala district.[21] His great-grandfather was Sewa Singh Thikriwala, a political activist who campaigned for the cause of Indian independence.[22] Another of Jagmeet's great-grandfathers is Hira Singh, who served in World War I and World War II in the Sikh Regiment of the British Indian Army.[23] After a year as a toddler living with his grandparents in India, Singh spent his early childhood in St. John's and Grand Falls-Windsor, both in Newfoundland and Labrador, before relocating with his family to Windsor, Ontario.[24][25] Singh has publicly discussed suffering sexual abuse as a child, as well as having a father who was alcoholic and abusive.[26]

From Grade 6 to 12, Singh attended Detroit Country Day School in Beverly HillsMichigan.[27] Singh went on to obtain a Bachelor of Science (BSc) in biology from the University of Western Ontario in 2001 and a Bachelor of Laws (LLB) from York University's Osgoode Hall Law School in 2005. He was called to the Bar of the Law Society of Upper Canada in 2006.[28]

Singh has two younger siblings, brother Gurratan and sister Manjot, who were both born during the family's time in Newfoundland.[25] Gurratan Singh was elected to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario in the 2018 Ontario election, representing the riding of Brampton East.[29]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagmeet_Singh#Early_life_and_education_(1979%E2%80%932006)

cco

10 consecutive link-quote posts, capped off by Jagmeet Singh's Wikipedia article. If you're not going to start a blog, could you consolidate all those into one thread from here on out, please?

Pondering

This seems like the right spot for this old article from 2008.  Laxer passed in 2018 so now both men are gone. It's a long read but very interesting from the perspective of hindsight. I'm finding it difficult to choose an appropriate quote from it because there are so many different angles to to think or expand upon. There is a lot to digest. It covers a lot of history that I am unfamiliar with. For that reason I decided the best place to start was the beginning but I don't want you to think it is the meat of the article. It's just the first thing I didn't know about. 

https://this.org/2009/08/14/james-laxer-jack-layton-ndp/

Whenever I see my friend and former colleague who had a liver transplant 20 years ago, I always think for a second about Tommy Douglas and the CCF-NDP, without whom this man who is now in his early 70s would be dead......

Without the NDP and its predecessor, the CCF, Canada would not have a universal health-care system that is so superior to its American counterpart.

 

I have less positive thoughts about the NDP when I think back to the spring of 1972, when Ontario party leader Stephen Lewis and his followers threw the Waffle movement, to which I had devoted much of my energy for the previous three years, out of the party. (We were not expelled as individuals, just told that if we kept up our activities—campaigning for public ownership of the major foreign-owned oil companies, for the recognition of Quebec as a nation and to halt the erosion of Canadian manufacturing industries—we would have our memberships torn up.) Much has been published this year about the 40th anniversary of the youthful political movements that confronted governments, universities, political parties and trade unions in Europe and North America in 1968. When the NDP threw out the Waffle and showed that it could not accommodate ’60s radicalism, the party lobotomized itself—a procedure not covered by medicare—from which it has never fully recovered.

For me, the NDP is an indispensable Canadian institution that ought to be critiqued, challenged, nurtured and supported. I believe the party has fallen on bad times, the consequence of too narrow a conception of politics, too great a preoccupation with parliament and too little connectedness with what is happening in our society.

He also covers 2005 of course but he goes much farther than that. I would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on various aspects of the article not necessarily the part I just quoted. More his overall thesis.

 

NorthReport

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh promises to forgive up to $20,000 in student debt

It's one of several promises aimed at college and university students

by Charlie Smith on August 28th, 2021 at 8:55 AM

  • Jagmeet Singh is trying to emphasize pocketbook issues in the federal election campaign, including Canada's sky-high cellphone bills.NDP

Last weekend, the NDP promised money for renters if it's elected to form Canada's next government on September 20.

Earlier this week, the party promised lower cellphone and Internet bills.

Today, party leader Jagmeet Singh pledged to make things easier for students.

At a campaign stop in Sudbury, Ontario, Singh said that he supports forgiving up to $20,000 in student-loan debt and doubling student grants. 

Related Stories

In addition, he reiterated a longstanding NDP promise to remove interest from federal student loans. Plus, he endorsed allowing students not to have to replay federal student loans in the first five years after graduating.

“When Justin Trudeau promised to help students, he used the opportunity to hand a $900 million contract to his friends at WE,” Singh said in a news release. “When banks and big corporations asked for help, Justin Trudeau rushed billions of dollars to them with no strings attached. Rising student debt should be something a prime minister wants to fight—not cash in on.

 

https://www.straight.com/news/ndp-leader-jagmeet-singh-promises-to-forgi...

Ken Burch

Pondering wrote:

This seems like the right spot for this old article from 2008.  Laxer passed in 2018 so now both men are gone. It's a long read but very interesting from the perspective of hindsight. I'm finding it difficult to choose an appropriate quote from it because there are so many different angles to to think or expand upon. There is a lot to digest. It covers a lot of history that I am unfamiliar with. For that reason I decided the best place to start was the beginning but I don't want you to think it is the meat of the article. It's just the first thing I didn't know about. 

https://this.org/2009/08/14/james-laxer-jack-layton-ndp/

Whenever I see my friend and former colleague who had a liver transplant 20 years ago, I always think for a second about Tommy Douglas and the CCF-NDP, without whom this man who is now in his early 70s would be dead......

Without the NDP and its predecessor, the CCF, Canada would not have a universal health-care system that is so superior to its American counterpart.

 

I have less positive thoughts about the NDP when I think back to the spring of 1972, when Ontario party leader Stephen Lewis and his followers threw the Waffle movement, to which I had devoted much of my energy for the previous three years, out of the party. (We were not expelled as individuals, just told that if we kept up our activities—campaigning for public ownership of the major foreign-owned oil companies, for the recognition of Quebec as a nation and to halt the erosion of Canadian manufacturing industries—we would have our memberships torn up.) Much has been published this year about the 40th anniversary of the youthful political movements that confronted governments, universities, political parties and trade unions in Europe and North America in 1968. When the NDP threw out the Waffle and showed that it could not accommodate ’60s radicalism, the party lobotomized itself—a procedure not covered by medicare—from which it has never fully recovered.

For me, the NDP is an indispensable Canadian institution that ought to be critiqued, challenged, nurtured and supported. I believe the party has fallen on bad times, the consequence of too narrow a conception of politics, too great a preoccupation with parliament and too little connectedness with what is happening in our society.

He also covers 2005 of course but he goes much farther than that. I would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on various aspects of the article not necessarily the part I just quoted. More his overall thesis.

 

And the bitter, bitter irony is that, in saying "no" to what the New Left stood for, in saying "no" to Quebec self-determination, in saying "no" to any sweeping transformative vision at all, in saying "no" to anything beyond the most timid, watered-down variants of Scandinavian social democracy, the NDP gained NOTHING in practical political terms.  Whatever positive electoral results the party had after the banning of the Waffle were the bare mininum showings the party would have achieved under any policies and with any leader.

31 seats and 17.8% were the weakest possible showing the party could have made in 1972.  Finally winning narrowly in Manitoba in '69 and finally winning in B.C. after spending 20 straight years failing to beat the Socreds there when they should have been able to beat the  years before was the bare minimum of what could have been achieved.

None of that was ONLY possible because the New Left was crushed or because the party took David Lewis' "Westmount Rhodesian" position on Quebec.  

And no one but the people who forced the Waffle out were to blame for the lost of half the party's seats in an election Lewis had no reason to force in 1974, or the Socred comeback in B.C. in the unnecessarily early election in 1975, or complete failure to make a national breakthrough in 1988 whe  BOTH of the old parties were unpopular and discredited and a clear stand against NAFTA would have produced that breakthrough.

The NDP chose "respectability" in 1972- and no one who voted NDP or needed the things a government run on genuine NDP values benefited in any way at all from that choice.

NorthReport

This election the NDP has 25 Indigenous candidates.

NDPP

[quote=NorthReport]

This election the NDP has 25 Indigenous candidates.

[quote=NDPP]

"Let's be clear. Jagmeet Singh made himself NDP Critic on Indigenous Isues and proceeded to support Justin Trudeau's White Paper 2.0 plan (Policy and legislation). He's as much a fraud and a threat to Inherent and Treaty rights as PMJT!"

https://twitter.com/RussDiabo/status/1431832712776663044

NDPP

Jagmeet Singh's support for provincial NDP betrays his promise

https://readpassage.com/jagmeet-singhs-support-for-provincial-ndp-betray...

"...Singh is setting himself up to become what he is campaigning against, someone whose words don't match their actions. Who could have worked for you but instead chose themselves. Someone, in essence, who betrayed their voters."

NDP=No Difference Party.

kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:

This election the NDP has 25 Indigenous candidates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJqY9Yxl7eE

NorthReport

Jagmeet heading to Ladysmith on Vancouver Island today

https://www.timescolonist.com/elections/ndp-leader-jagmeet-singh-headed-...

NDPP

NOT a Jagmeet Singh speech on Canada's failed Afghanistan mission (and vid)

https://twitter.com/zarahsultana/status/1428056008497143810

Hill & Knowlton would never permit it.

https://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/hill-and-knowltons-anne-mcgra...

 

Mazigh: We need a public inquiry into Canada's presence in Afghanistan

https://rabble.ca/columnists/2021/08/mazigh-we-need-public-inquiry-canad...

"During election time, I don't understand how we keep giving our politicians a pass for this failed Canadian mission. Many politicians failed us. Let's ask for a public inquiry into the Canadian mission in Afghanistan."

jagmeet@ndp.ca

NorthReport
NDPP

Dreaded words from politicians - 'let me be perfectly clear'

https://cfjctoday.com/2021/08/30/rothenburger-dreaded-words-from-politic...

"NDP leader Jagmeet Singh was making himself perfectly clear the other day when a reporter asked him whether he'd stop construction of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion should he and his party form government.

It was a question that requires only a yes-or-no answer. But Singh waffled, obfuscated and, with perfect clarity, avoided answering..."

NDP=No Difference Party

NorthReport

With the NDP now polling at 24% with less than 3 weeks to go in the election campaign, it seems that Jagmeet's leadership might possibly propel the NDP to become once again the Official Oposition, as the NDP did in 2011, when the NDP won 103 seats, under Jack Layton's leadership

NorthReport

Leadership, while not the only factor, plays quite a significant role in any political party's fortunes. With the right leader, even though opposed by the rich and powerful, via their mainstream media outlets, Canada's only progressive political party can do well politically. And right now, the NDP has a chance to shine in the eyes of the Canadian voters.

Jagmeet Singh surprises in Radio-Canada interviews with leaders.

https://rabble.ca/news/2021/08/jagmeet-singh-surprises-radio-canada-inte...

Ken Burch

NDPP wrote:

Dreaded words from politicians - 'let me be perfectly clear'

https://cfjctoday.com/2021/08/30/rothenburger-dreaded-words-from-politic...

"NDP leader Jagmeet Singh was making himself perfectly clear the other day when a reporter asked him whether he'd stop construction of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion should he and his party form government.

It was a question that requires only a yes-or-no answer. But Singh waffled, obfuscated and, with perfect clarity, avoided answering..."

NDP=No Difference Party

So who should people vote FOR?  Election boycotts never achieve anything, anywhere.  

And if you think the NDP is a "no difference" party- I'm not going to say you're wrong, overall- what are you trying to build as an alternative?

Have you done any work on trying to  help create a genuine independent socialist society?

NorthReport

Hopefully there will be substantial representation from Canada's Indigenous communities in our next Parliament

https://rabble.ca/news/2021/08/m%C3%A9tis-vancouver-centre-candidate-sub...

NDPP

Lots of times Ken. Not you? Perhaps if we'd had the guidance of a powerful American international 'influencer' like Hill & Knowlton and agreed to back NATO, NORAD, Free Trade, Mad dog Israel, Al Qaeda White Helmets, ecocide, genocide  and the rest of the awful package deal that comes with the American empire in all its technicolour horror, who knows what might've happened eh?

But, you're not going to say I'm wrong about the no difference party 'overall' Ken, so Hallelujah it's a start eh?  I remember times not so very long ago when such a thing was insupportable here and people went into grand-mal-apoplectic spasms if such an awful heresy occurred. Perhaps you do too.

What am I trying to build? Awareness. For myself and others. The necessary precondition to everything else including creating a right and fit collective planetary survival. One does what one can.

Particularly given the historical urgency and challenges of the 'lateness of the hour', these Canadian political parties are effectively enemies not friends and have proven themselves to be so more than enough times for me and multitudes more to get that.

One thing I do know. The present system is not going to get us where we need to go in the time we need to get there. And that includes the NDP and the other ones too. People are of course discussing among themselves alternative scenarios and future possibilities. More power to them. Anything real will only come from below not collaborating up above.

Incidentally, I thought you were an American. Why such an interest in Canadian politics and so little in your own?

Ken Burch

NDPP wrote:

Lots of times Ken. Not you? Perhaps if we'd had the guidance of a powerful American international 'influencer' like Hill & Knowlton and agreed to back NATO, NORAD, Free Trade, Mad dog Israel, Al Qaeda White Helmets, ecocide, genocide  and the rest of the awful package deal that comes with the American empire in all its technicolour horror, who knows what might've happened eh?

But, you're not going to say I'm wrong about the no difference party 'overall' Ken, so Hallelujah it's a start eh?  I remember times not so very long ago when such a thing was insupportable here and people went into grand-mal-apoplectic spasms if such an awful heresy occurred. Perhaps you do too.

What am I trying to build? Awareness. For myself and others. The necessary precondition to everything else including creating a right and fit collective planetary survival. One does what one can.

Particularly given the historical urgency and challenges of the 'lateness of the hour', these Canadian political parties are effectively enemies not friends and have proven themselves to be so more than enough times for me and multitudes more to get that.

One thing I do know. The present system is not going to get us where we need to go in the time we need to get there. And that includes the NDP and the other ones too. People are of course discussing among themselves alternative scenarios and future possibilities. More power to them. Anything real will only come from below not collaborating up above.

Incidentally, I thought you were an American. Why such an interest in Canadian politics and so little in your own?

Thank you for responding and explaining your approach.

Why am I interested in Canada?

Fair question.

While I recognize that Canada has great flaws, it has always struck me as a place where there is a greater sense of the possible- stronger social movements, a greater openness to political/economic visionaries, a comparitive absense of redbaiting or McCarthyism- than the States.  

That, and I'm an internationalist.

I deeply respect your passion and your anger about the structures in your country- I share it about the status quo in mine- my only critique of your approach is that you speak from rage, but not, seeming - and I could be reading you wrong- to try to evoke the most radical thing of all: a sense of radical, transformative hope.   Yes, people need to hear it straight about things being bad, but it seems to me that part of building awareness is building, at the same time, awareness that change is possible and where the possibilities exist or can be made to exist.  

I'd also say most people here, even those who advocating working through electoral politics, are NOT oppposing work for change outside the electoral sphere.  I think there's a general agreement that both projects are necessary.

For the record, I'm not a huge fan of the NDP- there are some MPs from its left wing I respect, but not the "moderates" or the party bureaucracy.  Among the Greens, I like Manley, Lascaris, Haddad, Kuttner, but have little use for Paul or May.  I hope the BC Ecosocialists can get their act together for the next election.

At the same time, I admire Idle NoMore, the Quebec student movement of the Teens, Black Lives Matter and Antifa and the Poor People's Campaign in the states, tenant organizers throughout the continent, the Red Braid Alliance in B.C., and, in both countries, the IWW, among many others.

If I've come across as an apologist for the politicians, that's my bad.  They're on their own.

I just think that the rhetoric of the struggle(s), the discourse we create, has to avoid sounding like what Woody Guthrie said he hated, like "a song that makes you think you are just born to lose, bound to lose".  The song(s) we need to be writing are the songs that say "yes, things are horrible, but we're still alive, we can change that, so let's figure out HOW".

 

 

 

JKR

NDPP wrote:

Particularly given the historical urgency and challenges of the 'lateness of the hour', these Canadian political parties are effectively enemies not friends and have proven themselves to be so more than enough times for me and multitudes more to get that.

Who are the multitudes you are speaking of? All I see is you speaking against others and for nothing.

NDPP

Thanks Ken.

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